The Drawbridge

BIblical Controversies and Discord

A Desert Place (a Different View)



Matthew 24:25-27

25Behold, I have told you before.26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth:behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

==================================================

GOSPEL OF HILLARY CLINTON – Feeding of the 5000

“FOR HILLARY CLINTON, FAITH MEANS CARING FOR OTHERS”

What difference does it make?

She also gives her version of the feeding of 5000 in the article linked above:

“The disciples come to Jesus and suggest they send away the people to find food to fend for themselves. But Jesus said, `No. You feed them,'” Clinton said. “He was teaching a lesson about the responsibility we all share.”

Screen shot 2014-04-26 at 5.21.01 PM

Are ya and the rest of government willing to stop traveling give up vacations, travel, and campaigning to feed the poor? Then I guess your faith is meaningless and you really don’t care nor does anyone who campaigns on feeding the poor, minimum wage, etc. Until you atop overtaxing and spending, until you repeal in total Obama Care and call a spade a spade which Obama Care is and stop entertaining yourselves, taking vacations and stop traveling on everyone else’s dime and fix the leaks in government waste going to Rome and other places illegally you are full of POOP.

Gospel of Matthew-Feeding of the 5000

John had been beheaded and the disciples took the body up. They told Jesus about what they had done and when he heard of it, he went to a desert place:

================================================

Matthew 14:13-15

13When Jesus heard of it, he departed thence by ship into a desert place apart: and when the people had heard thereof, they followed him on foot out of the cities.14And Jesus went forth, and saw a great multitude, and was moved with compassion toward them, and he healed their sick.15And when it was evening, his disciples came to him, saying, This is a desert place, and the time is now past; send the multitude away, that they may go into the villages, and buy themselves victuals.

Hmmmmmmmmm. The Synoptic Jesus was in a desert place yet he warms his disciples about seeking him in a desert?

Strange twist!

How does one depart by ship into a desert place.

Jesus did not know it was a desert place…which his disciples seem to have to tell him. The disciples are telling Jesus to send the multitude away, as if they were in charge of Jesus Christ! They are telling Jesus how to handle the people for the sake of the their hunger, as if Jesus did not realize?

Does that make any sense?

Matthew 14:16-18

16But Jesus said unto them, They need not depart; give ye them to eat.17And they say unto him, We have here but five loaves, and two fishes.18He said, Bring them hither to me.19And he commanded the multitude to sit down on thegrass,

The disciples must have had a lot of food with them for Jesus to tell them to give ye them to eat.

Now, He decides to take charge and tells the disciples to give the multitude of 5000 men not including women and children food to eat and they tell Jesus the “bottom line”which is that they only have five loaves and two fishes. Jesus commands the multitude to sit on the grass in the desert place.

Certainly Jesus knew that his disciple could not give the multitude of 5000 men and more including children food to eat.

So why did Jesus say that to his disciples?

Seems so deceptive!

Jesus commands the multitude to sit on the grass in the desert place.

=============================================

Gospel of Mark-Feeding of the 5000

John had been beheaded and the apostles laid John in a tomb and they told Jesus. Then Jesus said to his apostles to come alone to rest and eat and they departed by ship to a desert place. The people saw them departing and followed him and Jesus was moved with compassion and began to teach the people many things:

==========================================

Mark 6:35-36

35And when the day was now far spent, his disciples came unto him, and said, This is a desert place, and now the time is far passed: 36Send them away, that they may go into the country round about, and into the villages, and buy themselves bread: for they have nothing to eat.

The disciples tell Jesus that they are in a desert place and tells Jesus to send the people away to the surrounding villages and buy bread.

They are telling Jesus what to do as if he was not in his right mind.

Again, they are ordering Jesus to send the people away and reminding him that the people have nothing to eat!

Isn’t that a bit odd?


Mark 6:37-40

37He answered and said unto them, Give ye them to eat. And they say unto him, Shall we go and buy two hundred pennyworth of bread, and give them to eat?38He saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? go and see. And when they knew, they say, Five, and two fishes.39And he commanded them to make all sit down by companies upon the green grass. 40And they sat down in ranks, by hundreds, and by fifties

Again, Jesus says to the apostles to give the people food (5000 men not including women and children), and they ask Jesus if they should buy “two hundred pennyworth of bread” to feed the people?

Why do they say that specific amount?

Do they think that two hundred pennyworth of bread will feed the 5000 men not including the women and the children?

Then Jesus says to find out how many loaves they have. They find out they have five loaves and two fishes.

This sounds so contrived 

Then Jesus commands the people to sit “by companies,” on the green grass.

So the people sit down in “ranks, by hundreds and by fifties“.

This is very, very military jargon!

A soldier belonged to a Legion which had about 5,000 or 6,000 men. Each legion was divided into companies of 80 men called Centuries.

Here is a link of a site about ranks:

Roman Army Ranks!

Or companies could be referring to Big business:

Fortune 500 and INC 5000

Could be referring to money as in banking.

Honestly I don’t think Jesus had them sit in groups of 500 or by what company they worked for.

Screen Shot 2015-03-28 at 10.57.53 AM

$5000 bill featuring a portrait of James Madison

I think Mithraism was prevalent back in Roman days of occupation of Jerusalem and Israel. So some of the gospels may have been tainted a bit here and a bit there by those beliefs which is understandable. Confusion. Kind of like James Foley becoming a follower of Islam while imprisoned which isn’t that far a stretch from  being Roman Catholic.

Prayer beads, Burkas and Habits, Graven images like the many Shrouds of Turin (TURKEY) etc

Second Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Make Graven Images

There are some prophecies in the bible of being surrounded by armies….I think that includes priests and nuns as well because they are an army of sorts. They like to make up their own rules and measures.

=========================================

Gospel of Luke-Feeding the 5000

Jesus sends his disciples out to the towns to preach the gospel. They went out preaching and healing. John is already dead and Herod hears about the disciples and Jesus and Herod says he beheaded John and thought that Jesus was either John or Elias or some prophet that has arisen from the dead and so Herod desires to see him. The disciples tell Jesus about all that they had done.

===================================

Sounds like there is a problem with Luke’s background information in comparison to Matthew and Mark’s gospels.  Both their gospels say that Herod had just beheaded John and that they had taken John’s body up and put in a tomb and came to tell Jesus about what they had done, yet Luke seems to say time has passed and that Herod has had time enough to hear about the preaching and the healings of Jesus and his apostles/disciples. and thinks that John has arisen from the grave…

So Luke disagrees with the first two gospels in that the feeding of the 5000 is not immediately after the apostles take the body of the beheaded John and put him in a tomb.

Luke 9:10-12

10And the apostles, when they were returned, told him all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately into a desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.11And the people, when they knew it, followed him: and he received them, and spake unto them of the kingdom of God, and healed them that had need of healing.12And when the day began to wear away, then came the twelve, and said unto him, Send the multitude away, that they may go into the towns and country round about, and lodge, and get victuals: for we are here in a desert place.

Luke gets specific and names the place that Jesus takes the apostles which is a “desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.”

Again there must be a lot of grass in this desert place for 5000 men (not including women and children) to be able to sit down as commanded by this Jesus.

Bethsaida is not in the desert!

Matthew, Mark and Luke say they are in a desert place and Luke adds that it belongs to the city of Bethsaida.

Bethsaida must be deserted or at least the desert place of Bethsaida is deserted.

Again the apostles tell Jesus to send the multitude away so that they can get food AND LODGING and they remind Jesus that they are in a desert place, because Jesus was not aware that they needed food AND LODGING or that they were in a desert place (deserted place.)

Jesus seems to be getting progressively more inattentive to the needs of the multitude as we get to the Gospel of Luke.

Now the multitude also needs LODGING.

SO again the apostles are telling Jesus “how things are!”

Luke 9:13-15

13But he said unto them, Give ye them to eat. And they said, We have no more but five loaves and two fishes; except we should go and buy meat for all this people.14For they were about five thousand men. And he said to his disciples, Make them sit down by fifties in a company.15And they did so, and made them all sit down.

So again, Jesus tells the apostles to feed the multitude of 5000.

Now that is silly!

But they say they only have five loaves and two fishes unless they go buy more meat for the multitude.

Jesus tells them to make the people sit in “fifties in a company.”

Why not say tell them to sit down in families? Or get in line? Or sit down in rows and columns of twenties?

Again this is military jargon!

——————————————————————–

Gospel of JohnFeeding the 5000

Earlier in the chapter 5 of the Gospel of John Jesus was talking to the Jews at the temple in Jerusalem because of a feast of the Jews. He had just healed a man on the Sabbath and the Jews were persecuting him because he healed a man on the Sabbath and at that time alludes to John the Baptist having been a burning and a shining light to them, but in John chapter 3 John the Baptist had not yet been imprisoned. The Gospel of John does not say whether he is dead, alive or in prison! He goes to Sea of Galilee and a multitude followed him because of his miracles on the diseased. Jesus goes to a mountain and sits with his disciples and a company of people approach Him.

=========================================

Nothing is written in the Gospel of John about the decapitation or the burial of John the Baptist nor what the disciples had done for John the Baptist in his death neither for that matter anything about Herod and his response to Jesus (as in the gospel of Luke)!

John 6:1-13

1After these things Jesus went over the sea of Galilee, which is the sea of Tiberias.2And a great multitude followed him, because they saw his miracles which he did on them that were diseased.3And Jesus went up into a mountain, and there he sat with his disciples.4And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh. 5When Jesus then lifted up his eyes, and saw a great company come unto him, he saith unto Philip, Whence shall we buy bread, that these may eat?6And this he said to prove him: for he himself knew what he would do.

Now the gospel of John gets very specific:

The Gospel of John says nothing about a desert place or Bethsaida, but that they are in a mountain!

Which is kind of odd to see 5000 men not including women and children in a desert place or desert.

Doesn’t sound very deserted to me! And what are 5000 men and their families doing in the desert or a desert place?

Not one disciple tells Jesus where He is! Not one disciple tells Jesus to send the people away either! He seems to be quite aware and in control of the situation! In fact, He even realizes the needs of the people that followed him.The Gospel of John also gets specific to the time of this event and says that the passover was nigh (soon).

Jesus asks Philip where they should buy bread so they can provide bread after he sees a great company i.e. a great multitude approaching him.

Why does Jesus ask Philip?

Philip was from Bethsaida as stated in the gospel of John twice, which is odd to me!

Why not ask Andrew or Peter where to buy bread, who were also of the city of Bethsaida?

John 1:44

Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.

John 12:21
The same came therefore to
Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.

Bethsaida is a city of Galilee!

Jesus knows that the people need food even without the direction of his apostles! So in the gospel of John, Jesus seems to have his wit and wherewith all and

He seems to be in charge!

John 6:7-10

7Philip answered him, Two hundred pennyworth of bread is not sufficient for them, that every one of them may take a little. 8One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, saith unto him, 9There is a lad here, which hath five barley loaves, and two small fishes: but what are they among so many?10And Jesus said, Make the men sit down. Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, in number about five thousand.

Jesus does not command them to separate into companies, but tells the disciples to make the the men sit down. Jesus knew they did not have enough food or money to feed 5000 men! Jesus does not tell the disciples to feed the 5000 men, unlike the other three synoptic gospels contend knowing that they could not feed the 5000. Jesus asks Philip whence they can buy bread! Philip says that 200-penny
worth isn’t enough to feed the men, but Andrew says that a boy has a basket of 5 barley loaves of bread and 2 fish, but it isn’t enough.

The gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke (the synoptic gospels)

don’t even mention

the boy with the basket of 5 barley loaves of bread and 2 fish.

The other gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke) are making it sound ridiculous by omitting the boy with the bread and fish in this event.

Philip seems to know that 200 pennyworth isn’t enough to feed the 5000 men!

——————————————-

Now in the gospel of Mark the disciples ask Jesus : Shall we go and buy two hundred pennyworth of bread, and give them to eat?

I wonder why that amount of bread is proposed by them

since in the gospel of John

Philip says that two hundred pennyworth is not enough to feed the 5000 men!

How would Philip know?

Why would the gospel of Matthew have the disciples ask Jesus about this “same amount” that they should buy knowing it isn’t enough by what Philip replies in the gospel of John?

Is it Coincidence that they pull the same exact amount out of thin air to turn the tables (so to speak) unless Philip is the author of Matthew’s gospel and/or they, the synoptic authors, have John’s gospel in hand to weave a different story i.e. to mock and to go against!

Weird!

It is apparent that Philip had the money or would be able to estimate the amount needed for a multitude of 5000 men and that is why Jesus asked Philip (instead of Peter or Andrew) in the gospel of John:

John 6:5-6

5When Jesus then lifted up his eyes, and saw a great company come unto him, he saith unto Philip, Whence shall we buy bread, that these may eat?6And this he said to prove him: for he himself knew what he would do.

If they were in Bethsaida, wouldn’t Philip, Peter or Andrew have said lets go check out what is in the town and see if they have food or we can find out?

Philip was from Bethsaida, but he doesn’t say anything about Bethsaida only that 200-pennyworth won’t feed the multitude, but just a little.

When I cook for a big group it takes a lot of planning to know how much is needed per person. There are people that do cook for large groups that can estimate because of experience in doing so, like caterers!

In those days Barley loaves was also used as currency!

Why would the gospel of Matthew later say not to go into the desert when they were supposedly in a “desert place” when Jesus fed the 5000 men according to Matthew, Mark and Luke.

The Gospel of John does not say they were in a desert place, but that they were in a mountain.

The gospel of Matthe says that the disciples ask, shall we go buy 200 pennyworth of bread when it would not even satisfy the multitude?

Jesus does not command them to separate into companies, but gets the disciples to make the the people sit down. Jesus knew the disciples did not have enough food or money to feed 5000 men and the women and children as did the other three synoptic gospels contend. But Andrew brings up that a boy has some bread and fish, which was probably offered by an enthusiastic boy trying to help.

And to top it off Jesus of the gospel of Matthew says in his prophetic monologue the following:

Matthew 24:25-26

25Behold, I have told you before.

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth:

behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

The synoptic gospels try to infer that Bethsaida was deserted or in a desert place, when Jesus was with the disciples in a mountain

So is Matthew saying not to believe the feeding of the 5000 men?

—————————————————

Conclusion

——————————————————

Matthew 14:19-21

19……..and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.

20And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full.

21And they that had eaten were about five thousand men, beside women and children.

Mark 6:41-46

41And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves, and gave them to his disciples to set before them; and the two fishes divided he among them all.

42And they did all eat, and were filled.

43And they took up twelve baskets full of the fragments, and of the fishes.

44And they that did eat of the loaves were about five thousand men.

45And straightway he constrained his disciples to get into the ship, and to go to the other side before unto Bethsaida, while he sent away the people.

46And when he had sent them away, he departed into a mountain to pray.

Luke 9:16-17

16Then he took the five loaves and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed them, and brake, and gave to the disciples to set before the multitude.

17And they did eat, and were all filled: and there was taken up of fragments that remained to them twelve baskets.

The three synoptic gospels say that Jesus blessed the loaves and brake the loaves, etc., but the gospel of John says he gave thanks and distributed!

That is a huge antithesis!

John 6:11-15

11And Jesus took the loaves; and when he had given thanks, he distributed to the disciples, and the disciples to them that were set down; and likewise of the fishes as much as they would.

12When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost.

13Therefore they gathered them together, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves, which remained over and above unto them that had eaten.

14Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.

15When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

============================

The Eucharist was around before Jesus and was practiced in Egypt. It had nothing to do with Jesus, but was a pagan practice and worshipping another god.

The monstrance is what holds the Eucharist and it is IDOLATRY!

Monstrance

Why do you suppose they are usually the shape of the sun?

Please Read:

How is it That Ye Do Not Understand?

Advertisements

June 5, 2010 - Posted by | bible, Bible Controversies, Bread of Life, Consecration of the Bread, Feeding of the 5000, Gospel of John, Gospel of Luke, Gospel of Mark, Gospel of Matthew, Synoptic Gospels, The Eucharist, The Monstrace, The Truth | , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

No comments yet.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s